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Transcript: Mayor de Blasio Appears Live on the Brian Lehrer Show

March 6, 2020

Brian Lehrer: It’s the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning everyone. And we begin as we usually do on Fridays with our weekly Ask the Mayor segment, my questions and yours for Mayor Bill de Blasio. Our phones are open at 2-1-2-4-3-3-WNYC. That's 2-1-2-4-3-3-9-6-9-2. Or you can tweet a question. Just use the hashtag #AskTheMayor. Good morning, Mr. Mayor. Welcome back to WNYC.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Good morning, Brian.

Lehrer: So, today, I'm going to begin by asking you questions about the coronavirus for the first stretch and then we'll take phone calls on that or anything from our listeners. So any updates on the number of cases this morning?

Mayor: Yeah, let me give you the latest. We have one new case. This is a man in his 50’s. When I say new case, just listen to the whole narrative. A man in his 50’s who lives in Manhattan, he has mild symptoms at this moment. We're testing his family and the disease detectives are following up on his contact. So he has tested positive. He is associated with, in some way and we'll get the details later on, with the lawyer who lives in Westchester County and worked at a law firm in Midtown. But again, so when Brian, I've been doing this obviously with a lot your colleagues in the media, really important to hear the exact reality. This man in his 50’s has tested positive but has very mild symptoms, which is a very good sign. We'll know more shortly on his family and any other close contacts.

Lehrer: I saw the stat yesterday that more than 2,700 people in New York City are being quarantined or self-quarantined and aggressively monitored. Can you explain how the number got that big?

Mayor: Well, remember there have been the different guidances given out by the CDC, by the Health Department now for weeks and weeks. And that's particularly related to folks who traveled. And what we're finding so far and we're going to constantly update the community on this, is that people are taking that quarantine very seriously. But remember you go into quarantine, whether you have symptoms or not based on the travel guidance out of an abundance of caution. And what we are seeing in the vast majority of cases of course, is that people, you know, go those two weeks, stay out of circulation, don't evince symptoms and get back to their lives. If they do evince symptoms, if they are in any way symptomatic, we then go and test them right away.

Lehrer: What does self – what does the term aggressively monitored mean?

Mayor: It means checking in with them regularly. First of all, when anyone goes into quarantine and we know about it we're giving them guidance up front on what to do, how to approach the quarantine, what approach they should take to their health, how to deal with anybody else in their life. And to know where to call with our Health Department if they have symptoms. Because then we want to act right away. But we also have contact information, reach out regularly, check on them to see if they need anything, to confirm that they are abiding by the quarantine. I think it's important, Brian, there's a lot of concern out there obviously, but I do think people need to recognize this.

Now this is about, you know, I remember my first press conference was January 24th. And on January 24th we said this thing is coming to New York City. It is not a matter of if but when and we need testing capacity from the federal government. That's six weeks ago. People for six weeks in this country have been bombarded with information about coronavirus. In fact, really even beyond the impact of the disease, people have been really, really put on high, high, high alert.

So I think what we're finding, we'll keep checking this – that people who are quarantined are taking it pretty damn seriously because they've been told so many times by believable sources that this really matters and that they will put themselves and others in danger if they don't abide by the quarantine. What I'm seeing so far is that people are taking that real seriously because they're convinced that they have to.

Lehrer: You announced two new cases yesterday, I believe a man in his 40’s and a woman in her 80’s, now in intensive care units in Manhattan and Brooklyn hospitals. But you were uncertain how they became infected because neither had traveled to a known effected area or had exposure to other known patients, like you said, the man in his 50’s who you're announcing today had a connection to the New Rochelle lawyer. So do you know any more about those two people today? We've heard quickly about the New Rochelle attorney’s links to a number of people, but not so far in these two cases announced yesterday.

Mayor: Well, first of all, later on today, I'll be holding a press availability where we're going to give full updates on every case. So I will have more to say in a few hours, but on the general point, look, we've been saying our health experts have been saying community spread now means, which is only this week we've experienced it. That you will not always be able to trace it back to a specific origin. Once it's out in the community. People can and will contract coronavirus and we will not be able to know the origin. We will be able to know who they have been in close contact with so that we can go and follow up.

I want to use the Yeshiva University example. The young man, the student at Yeshiva University, the son of the Westchester lawyer. He tested positive. He had very mild symptoms. He's doing great, but our disease detectives from the Department of Health found two close contacts. A roommate and a close friend went to those folks, tested them. They both tested negative. So we're going to be constantly doing that. Looking for every opportunity to look for who needs more help, who needs to be brought in for testing? Who needs a medical support? That process so far is going well, but that's a different matter than knowing exactly where the origin was. We're not, bluntly, if we can find it, we want to know it of course. If we can't, it doesn't change our basic strategy.

Lehrer: About the New Rochelle attorney who works near Grand Central. I read that reporters were asking if he traveled on Metro-North because a neighbor told the Daily News that he had, but the City or the State have not confirmed or denied this. Can you now?

Mayor: I can't, but I keep saying, we're going to keep explaining to the people in the city, the latest understanding of how the disease is transmitted. We're going to constantly update the understanding of that. Because this is a literally new disease in the world. It's been around essentially for three months. We are getting – the international medical community is trying to understand it all the time. Obviously trying to get to a vaccine and a cure.

But the reason I say that, Brian, is we'll tell you what we understand about transmission. We'll constantly update it. The one thing that's clear is if he traveled on Metro-North based on the information we have now that's not overly telling, it's not overly indicative. Because you know, if someone's on the same train car as another person, that does not, from what we know so far, create a dynamic where you have an opportunity to catch this disease. It's just a different reality. What we're seeing – look at what we're seeing so far. It's people in close contact. And again, we'll keep updating that. But what we've seen so far, facts on the ground, it is people in close contact. And so if we get information about where someone traveled, great. But what I am concerned is Brian, so what then what then do people extrapolate out of it? If this man took Metro-North a week ago, for example, or two weeks ago, I'm not sure what that tells us that's usable. If we find something usable, we will tell people.

Lehrer: And I guess especially if you're not having a lot of other random people show up coronavirus positive just from having been on any kind of public transportation, which so far I guess we're not.

Mayor: No, we're doing more and more testing and when I give the update later day, you'll see, and I know all your colleagues in the media are listening, you will see more test results than you've seen in previous days because we said where we're going with a containment strategy. We're going with a maximum testing strategy and so we have greater numbers today than we've had any previous day. We'll have the final update again in a few hours. But here's what I want to really emphasize that this is very important for your listeners. We all understand, I hope we all understand what coronavirus is and isn't. It can be very serious for a person with a compromised immune system with a serious respiratory problem, you know, with other medical challenges. But overwhelmingly what we're seeing is for younger folks, for healthier folks, it is a quickly passing, mild disease.

No one should underestimate it. No one should underestimate the fact that you, for example, if the Yeshiva university young man came out fine, but we want to be sensitive to in any case, you know, if he was in contact with other people who might be more compromised, that's exactly what disease detectives look for. That's a real issue. But for most people, 80 percent of people who get coronavirus experience it somewhat like a cold or flu. 20 percent experience more serious reality, but overwhelmingly come through okay. It clearly can be fatal for folks who are already compromised. We take that very, very seriously.

But here's the other point about what we're seeing with the approach. If you have the symptoms – so, first of all, if you've traveled to the areas that are most effected or people in your life that you're close to have traveled to those areas, and you have those cold and flu type symptoms, get to a doctor immediately. If you don't know where to get doctor, call 3-1-1, we’ll tell you where to go. You can go to one of our public hospitals or clinics. Then what happens, Brian – I think it's important for people understand – as you go in, the doctor checks the symptoms, if it confirms those are the symptoms that might correlate to coronavirus, they give you a test that I believe it's called BioFire is one of the phrases for the test that immediately identifies, I think it's 29 more common diseases in that family and if you have one of those 29 it's not coronavirus. If you don't have one of those 29, then there's a good question, okay, of course, especially if there's a travel nexus and you don't have one of those other more typical diseases, we want you tested immediately for coronavirus.

Lehrer: Let me follow up on that in a couple of ways. One, you just said something that you said on last week's show that wound up confusing people. When you said get to a doctor if you think you have the symptoms, a lot of other people seem to say don't just show up at a doctor's office because you might be contagious. At least call ahead before you go and don't just show up. Unless you're really in emergency condition. What's the –

Mayor: This is deadly serious stuff.

Lehrer: Absolutely.

Mayor: I don’t mean to overstate. When you say I'm confusing people, I'm going to take a little offense to that. I am the ultimate voice here taking the information from our health authorities and giving the people in New York City one message. So let me give it again. And what I said was the guidance, period. I'm sorry to be heavy on your brother –

Lehrer: It’s alright.

Mayor: But this is the way it is. Get to a doctor. Of course we prefer, and I want you to hear this very important nuance. If you can call first, inform the doctor of your situation so they can be prepared. If you can actually get through to the right person, of course, we prefer that. That is the optimal situation. Please, if you can do that, do that. But here's why the guidance does not end with that. A lot of us have had the experience of trying to get through to a doctor's office.
We can't get through it. We can't get through to the right person. The person we talked to doesn't have the right information because you know, the doctor's busy, whatever it may be. I don't want someone sitting around and waiting, you know, an hour, two hours, six hours, a day, two days because they can't get to the right person. If you don't know where to call, if you can't get through to the right person, just get to health care. This is the decision that we came to with our public health experts. That it is a much better bet to get the health care.

The minute you arrive here is really clear guidance. If you arrive at any place, a doctor's office, a clinic, an urgent care, an emergency room, the first words out of your mouth have to be, I'm here because I'm concerned I may have coronavirus because I have these symptoms and especially if there's a travel nexus immediately identified. I traveled to one of the countries, my spouse traveled to one of the countries, my child did, whatever it is, put that information up front. They will know immediately what to do to isolate you in that situation but do not hesitate to get the care because what we're trying to do – this is a containment strategy that depends on very rapidly getting people to evaluation and testing so we can rule out people, which is most folks so far, and then rule in the folks who need to be immediately acted on. If you go to a medical facility and you announce your situation, they will know how to properly isolate you, put a mask on you, whatever they need to do. But if you don't go and get care, to me, that's a much more problematic scenario because then someone is making their own decisions out there, potentially coming in contact with a lot of people. That's what I will not – that's what I do not accept as a good course of action. I want people getting in front of professionals.

Lehrer: Here's a question from a listener via Twitter who came back from Japan and says, got back from Japan 10 days ago, but can't be tested as I have no symptoms. This might be justified - they write – but I'd like to know why. It sounds like this person is seeking a test because of simply having been in Japan but has no symptoms. What would you tell them?

Mayor: Okay, and this one sort of - again anyone who needs information can call 3-1-1, just want to clarify that. Anyone that needs a test can call 3-1-1 and get literally told, here's exactly where you go. And again, assuming they do meet the criteria for a test, but certainly anyone can get to health care by via 3-1-1. The basic guidance on travel is once you have been, again, and I'm going to say a really important asterisk here because we don't fully understand this disease, the guidance could change every day. I hope it won't, but it could. So when I'm doing what has been a daily briefing this week, my public health experts are some of the finest in the country, we'll constantly update if some of the facts, some of the specific strategies are changing, we will give people exactly what we know.

But here's what we know as of now, if you come back from one of the affected countries and you self-quarantine, and you've been back over 14 days, and you have no symptoms, then you're in the clear. If it has not manifested within 14 days, and you haven't been in contact with new people, and that's crucial. If your version of quarantine is you're coming in contact with a whole bunch of new people, that's a different discussion in a community spread dynamic. But let's say a real quarantine, literally isolate yourself from anyone else. You go through your 14 days, then you're in the clear because there's no source that has caused you to manifest the disease. And if that hasn't happened in 14 days based on what we know today, it's not going to happen.

Lehrer: Why have so few people been tested? I gather the city says it has the capacity to test a thousand people, but only about four dozen have been conducted so far from what I've read?

Mayor: So it's an excellent question. So remember we pleaded with the CDC to give us independent testing capacity. Previously, literally the test had to either go to Atlanta which is ludicrous or eventually the State lab was up and running, but that's still not, you know, here in the city and available to us the way we want. Only as of Monday afternoon this week were we able to do our own independent testing. So that's point one. We had a cumbersome system. Now we're in a heavy testing mode, a containment mode. You're going to see what the report later today, the numbers will jump up meaningfully. They're going to keep jumping up. We're trying to expand our testing capacity rapidly. We need support from the federal government to do that. When we get where we want to go, which is where we can do hundreds of people in a day, that's going to give me a lot more comfort that as we're telling people get to health care and we're identifying cases and are getting the test that we're going to have a much better sense of what's happening out there and how to address it.

So I expect Brian, just based on the testing capacity we have right now, that you're going to see a regular increase in the number of people being tested. When we get more capacity, we can do even more. But it really depends on, this is a participatory dynamic, if you will, it depends on people coming forward, getting the health care, particularly of again, that travel nexus is still really matters, it’s still a really intense predictor in this case, even with community spread. We got to get people to come in so then we can test everyone who should be tested.

Lehrer: I want to ask you about some measures that Seattle and King County there are taking with 31 cases as of yesterday. Not that many more than here. They're recommending –

Mayor: I’m sorry, I just want to clarify, we have right now, we're at six cases. They are at 31 - five - I'm sorry, five cases. There are 31.

Lehrer: Okay.

Mayor: I think it is and we're a city about that, I think something like 10 times larger than them, but go on.

Lehrer: Right. But including Westchester, I think it's 22 –

Mayor: Yeah, when you do metropolitan area, I hear you. Yeah.

Lehrer: And they're recommending in general, in the King County - which Seattle metropolitan area - that people not gather in groups of more than 10 if unnecessary. That people over 60, even if healthy and pregnant women, stay home as much as possible. That people work from home as much as possible. Later in the show, we'll talk to a Seattle reporter about how far this is going in the real world, but what are you advising or having now to think about advising regarding workplaces and theaters and other institutions where people gather suspending usual activities to whatever degree?

Mayor: We’re asking ourselves the question every day. And when I say ourselves, I mean some of the leading public health experts in the country and some of the leading emergency management experts in the country. Look, I have – it's not just a matter of guidance. I have emergency powers I could invoked where we can actually shut things down [inaudible] if we need to. I don't do that, wouldn't do that lightly, obviously. But here's the challenge, Brian – we were watching daily, hourly, the trajectory here. It's not the same as Washington State. I really want to emphasize that, Washington State had a situation where in a particular facility things got out of control and it took a long time to get a handle on it. And I don't blame them, they didn't have the kind of testing capacity that we've all been trying to get from the federal government. And obviously we're dealing with a new situation. The advance of the disease, there is, I think, patently different from what we're seeing here. Again, a much smaller area and it jumped up very quickly and I don't blame them for being very, very cautious. I'm watching for that moment where the experts and I come to a conclusion that it's smart to do that type of thing. I don't see it now. I see still very isolated cases and I see people coming through overwhelmingly, it doesn't mean everyone's going to come – very worried about the woman in her 80s, for example. But the lawyer from Westchester originally was in tough shape, has been getting better. We're getting a lot of negative tests, including from even family members of people who have it, live under the same roof. I'm trying to strike that balance, because, you know, there's a whole lot riding on this – there's everybody's lives, their livelihoods, and I really am sensitive to that. People, you know, have to pay the bills, and our entire economy – nothing's as important as health and safety. But I'm watching the numbers, I'm watching the trend line here and I don't think it's the moment to take that kind of action. That could be changed tomorrow, that could be changed next week, but, based on what we see now, Brian, here's the most important thing, and this is the irony – the solution, if you will, and every public health expert I've talked to says this – the solution is the basics. If you have symptoms, immediately get to health care. Wash your hands all the time, use alcohol-based hand sanitizer all the time, cough into your elbow or sneeze into your elbow – really basic stuff. If you think you're coming down with something, get away from other people. And again, everyone can be responsible here. If you think you're coming down with these kinds of symptoms and you don't know what it is yet, don't go out into the world. Don't go to work. Don't get on the subway. I know that's not a perfect reality, Brian, where everyone's going to hear my voice and do what I say, but I think more – this has been surround sound coverage of this crisis. More and more people are getting the message. Don't take a chance with your life or anyone else's life. Those people should stay home. So, Brian, I don't think it's about shutting down all workplaces or movie theaters and all, I think it's about people who may be vulnerable or people who may have symptoms acting accordingly. And I would say with parents, and I want to offer this proactively – as a parent, because parents have been asking this question – as of now, and we'll update people constantly. But as of now, we do not see this disease affecting children in a meaningful way, except – the one thing to be careful for is a child who has a compromised immune system or a child who has serious respiratory issues. There, we want parents to be very vigilant, obviously keep them away from anyone who has any kind of symptoms in that whole family. And with those children, we're going to put every school on alert to know exactly who those children are. And if we see anything that worries us, we might give a specific instruction about those children. But here's another example, Brian, we have 1.1 million school kids, as of last night – I'll check again today – but, as of last night, we did not have a single symptomatic child in our entire school system. So, you know, this is going to be day-to-day, hour-to-hour. I think the media and the public are seeing were constantly updating people. We want to be very transparent. But if we get to a point of something, a more serious action, you'll know about it right away. But I do not believe we’e here.

Lehrer: So, last question from me, for now, and then we'll get to a few phone calls in our remaining time. About schools – despite claims I've read that the DOE is providing supplies to all the schools, we continue to hear of bathrooms without basics like soap and towels, and custodians who have to squeeze extra cleaning into their existing hours. Can you guarantee that all schools will have what they need by a certain date and are following the cleaning protocols?

Mayor: Yeah, I first of all, it would be a service to me and to the people of New York City, if anyone knows of such a situation, I want to hear about it. So, call 3-1-1 and report any school facility that doesn't have soap and towels and we will, you know, we will rain holy hell on that school, with all due respect to them, because that's unacceptable. It's unacceptable anytime, it's especially unacceptable in this environment. Brian, I'm going to say it was very bluntly, this is not the 1970s – our school system has the resources to provide every school with towels and soap, and does. If any school is not making sure – I would put this on all school personnel to step up – if any school is not ensuring those things are present, they have a problem and we're going to deal with them. But it's not for lack of supplies. In fact, the Chancellor made clear yesterday that we are supplying – if a private school, religious school, charter school, any kind of school needs supplies, we have them, we'll get them to them. And the cleaning supplies are not mysterious, they are basic cleaning supplies, disinfectant supplies. No school in New York City should lack them. If they need them, all that to do is call the Department of Education, they'll get them. If someone sees something's not happening, please report it to 3-1-1 or call WNYC, as people often do. And, Brian, we’ll welcome your team alerting us to anything you hear.

Lehrer: And we definitely will. And thank you for that offer. Carlton in Harlem, you're on WNYC with the Mayor. Hello, Carlton.

Question: Hey, good morning. Good morning, Mayor de Blasio. I just wanted to ask the Mayor to grant me and a group of people who live in HDFC a meeting to discuss the solution – these solutions to the crisis that HDFCs are facing right now. Are you still there?

Lehrer: We’re here.

Mayor: Yes. The answer is yes. This one – I'm glad you called Carlton, this one bugging me. It is a complex subject matter. This is – Brian, these buildings – this goes back, literally to, I mentioned, the 70s. This goes back to the 70s. This goes back to the bad old days and the “Bronx is burning” and everything else where a bunch of buildings were abandoned by their landlords and the tenants hung on and the City stepped in in many cases to provide support. And it's a complex set of dynamics around the status of these buildings here, but here's the bottom line – we want to do right by the people live in the buildings, we want to keep those buildings affordable, we want it to be in good shape. We need everyone to participate. There are some ground rules, but each building is different, just to make it more interesting. So, I would like to meet with representatives of that community with my housing officials, because I think we still need to improve our response to the situation.

Lehrer: Here's a listener question via Twitter. [Inaudible] writes, a young black man in Canarsie was brutally taken down by six cops, none of whom told him why he was being detained, nor did the plainclothes police officer identified himself when he stopped the young man. Mr. Mayor, I don't know if you've seen that video that's going around.

Mayor: I have, I spoke to it. Brian, I spoke to this at some detail, as did the Police Commissioner at our press conference yesterday. So, again, I'm saying this lovingly – your team would do well to inform you of that. But let me speak to it. It's –

Lehrer: By the way, I knew that, but a lot of our listeners did not hear the news conference and are concerned about this. Go ahead –

Mayor: I’m saying I said in the press conference I had seen the video. So, let me clarify. I'm not – what I saw, I do not like and is not what we're supposed to be doing here in New York City. It's not what our police officers are supposed to be doing. Now, that being said, and I want people to hear me clearly, because it's very important to also to understand the perspective of our officers. We're actually all in this together. Our officers, our community members – were all actually in one city together, trying to keep it safe. The officers were responding to a shots-fired alert. That is a different dynamic than every-day. My understanding of the narrative is this, the officers were responding in the community, looking for a shooter, see two men in a park, approached them and they both run. Once you have two people running from police officers, that raises additional concern. The officers chase after them, the one officer gets the one individual you see on the video. I don't like how it ends, because it's not what we're trying to aspire to. We're trying to always deescalate and get things right. I don't know, I don't think anyone knows the exact dialogue, Brian, because the video, to the best of my understanding, doesn't clearly – you can't clearly hear everything that's transpiring. There's an investigation going on. We're going to look at exactly how the officers handled it. But I do want to emphasize, if it's a shots-fired dynamic, that means that that officer does not know if the individual has a weapon on them or not. That's a different reality than an every-day situation. So, I want to see a better protocol, but I also want to emphasize that we have to strike a balance here. Anyone who is asked by a police officer to stop should stop, anyone who's asked by a police officer to answer a questions should answer the question, and if a police officer says, I'm going to put you under arrest, you're not supposed to struggle, you're supposed to agree with it. If there's a difference, we'll sort out the difference later. We have a legal system. So, this is an imperfect situation all around. But the last part especially, that, to me, is not the situation we want to see in the city and we're going to take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Lehrer: And on one additional crime and policing story before we run out of time, and I know you addressed this yesterday too, but for this audience, and if there's any further development – I see crime stats went up meaningfully in February as they had in January, and the debate is deepening over whether the new bail reform law has anything to do with it. Public defenders, as you know, are questioning whether the NYPD is maybe even giving the most aggressive possible tabulation of the numbers with a possible political agenda of discrediting the new law. An example that they use is that NYPD stats show that a 65 percent increase in car theft has taken place this year, but the public defenders say their caseload of such cases is actually down 9 percent. So, what can you say to the spike and the bail reform debate?

Mayor: I think the public defenders should be ashamed of themselves. And I made the point of the press conference yesterday, they're in good company now with Ray Kelly, who at one point tried to challenge – when Bill Bratton was commissioner, tried to challenge NYPD statistics for his own agenda, was quickly proven wrong, and then never said it again. This is ridiculous the NYPD – you can agree or disagree with any given policy, but the NYPD has been extraordinarily transparent via CompStat, including putting out all sorts of information that isn't convenient to put out, but is the truth on a regular basis and explaining it and answering to it. We're talking about a 20 percent increase in major index crimes – we saw it in January, we saw it in February. This is not small stuff. We’ve had, you know, 25 years overall, Brian, of steady decline. Particularly the last six years, I'm proud to say, we've had very consistent decline. How do you have a 20 percent increase for two full months out of the blue? We’ve go to be honest about this. So, there's always – I'm happy to say, there's never a single, single factor that answers everything. I'm fine with that. But let's be honest, the statistics are real. The statistics are truthful. Something has changed. A good part of it is related to the new law. The new law, as I have said and the Commissioner said, is the right thing to do. And we supported it. I supported it in the main. I think there were in the wording that need to be corrected and I really do believe based on what the Governor said, based on what the State Senate majority has said that you're going to see some work done by April 1st with the State budget to improve on that law. The intended law was good. A lot of the law is providing crucial reforms we needed. There's a few things that need to be improved.

Lehrer: Thank you, as always, Mr. Mayor. Talk to you next week.

Mayor: Thank you, Brian.

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